Subj: System 5.0 "Error Code=$0002" 89-08-13 13:29:10 EST
From: Pig bit Msgs: 9 (89-09-02)
I have purchased System 5.0 and have installed it on a hard disk (CMS 60 meg). I am using Prosel-16 as a launcher, and on several occations I get the following screen;
GS/OS System Error
Address = $02DA09 LC Bank = $0
Error Code = $0002
What does this mean........?
"The books do not explain the error code messages"
ALSO Can I partition my CMS 60 meg. (It came with it's own SCSI card)? I tried, and the menu was dimmed. The book says it is not a SCSI device if they are dimmed. How can I make it a SCSI device?
Thanks for any help you cam give
Don Rumbutis
Subj: GS/OS and CMS 89-08-13 17:51:02 EST
From: AFL Dyfet
The Advanced Disk Utilities only recognize the Apple SCSI card, hence, to partition your harddisk, you would need to use an Apple SCSI card in place of your CMS controller.
Dyfet
Subj: Re: System 5.0 "Error Code=$0002 89-08-13 22:40:31 EST
From: Matt DTS
The fatal error message you are seeing usually means that GS/OS absolutely had to have some memory just to stay alive, and it couldn't get it. What's your memory configuration?
--Matt
Subj: Re: System 5.0 "Error Code=$0002 89-08-13 22:54:01 EST
From: Nuzz
There is a known bug in the CMS card that will cause an intermitent crash upon Boot-up. CMS is about to release a new Rom for their card that will fix this, and it will also correctly display the Red Bar's position in relation to boot-up.
It will also let you partition the 60Meg drive into two 32 Meg volumes, gaining 4 meg.
There is no way at present to use the Partition feature of ADU with the CMS card. (I even went as far as to patch out ADU so the Partition button was LIVE.) You can guess what happened ):
Mike
Subj: Re: System 5.0 "Error Code=$0002 89-08-16 03:40:15 EST
From: Pig bit
As far as memory config. I have an Apple Board, filled (1.25 meg). U also learned about the ROM update from CMS.
Don
Subj: Re: System 5.0 "Error Code=$0002 89-08-26 13:53:38 EST
From: Whaler2
Aha! I just saw the reference to "fixing the red bar"! I was about to ask if anyone else had this problem with 5.0. Guess so.
I must also add that the increase in speed I heard about for 5.0
is hardly anything to write home about. Am I alone in thinking this?
Whaler
Subj: writing home about 5.0 89-08-29 23:30:54 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Whaler, for many operations System Software 5.0 is *definitely* something to write home about.
('course, if you're already at home, that would be silly--but you can at least talk to yourself about it.)
--Dave
Subj: Re: System 5.0 and CMS 89-08-31 22:50:35 EST
From: M Sandry
Whaler2,
You're right, and you're not right!
I, too, have a CMS 60 Meg drive and have tried both cards. System 5.0 is definately faster than 4.0, but only if you use the Apple SCSI card. With system 4.0, the CMS card is much faster.
Marty Sandry
Subj: Re: System 5.0 and CMS 89-09-02 14:36:25 EST
From: M Sandry
Waler2,
Perhaps I was a bit hastey with my previous message. This is an ammendment.
System 5.0 is faster with the Apple SCSI card for 16-bit programs. For 8 bit programs like ProDOS and AppleWorks, it is slower than the CMS card.
Marty
Subj: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-08-21 22:26:15 EST
From: BBUD BSS Msgs: 15 (89-09-18)
I think there is another "bug" in System 5.0. If you use the "SAVE AS" function and the name of the file being saved already exists, System 5.0 will NOT save the file or give a warning that it was NOT saved. The SAVE AS window does not disappear until you either click cancel or use another unused name.
Is someone in the GS/OS development team aware of this? This is happening every time with Paintworks Gold, Font Factory GS, Medley (including Medley 2.0 beta), AW GS, etc. The normal SAVE function works properly.
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-08-21 23:29:29 EST
From: JoshThomps
That happens to me sometimes, but it seems like only in certain programs. I'll have to start writing down which ones so somebody at Apple can trace the problem.
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-08-22 22:03:04 EST
From: GS Express
I've also seen this. The one common factor I've observed is that the bug occurs only *after* running a ProDOS 8 application.
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-08-22 22:29:26 EST
From: BBUD BSS
That's interesting about running Prodos 8 first. I'll have to try booting directly into the finder and see what happens. I use easydrive and end up in Prodos 8 (because most of my needs are P8 like AW, Point to Point, Copy II pLus, etc.)
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-08-24 01:14:55 EST
From: Mark TMM
A work-around that seems to be working for me is to do the following...
RENAME TOOL023 to TOOL023.SYS5 (to prevent its access)
then copy in TOOL023 from your old SYSTEM 4.0 disk
This is the Standard File Toolset that handles most of the disk access dialogs.
Mark
Subj: Just say no to 4.0's TOOL23 89-08-25 02:12:54 EST
From: A2Pro Tim
Mark,
Replacing 5.0's Std File tool set with the one from 4.0 might APPEAR to work for now, but I promise you it will break applications written to take advantage of 5.0's new features!
Std file under 5.0 supports the List Manager and the Resource Manager. If you run an app that requires some of the 5.0 specific routines and all you've got to offer that app is the 4.0 stuff, then you're hosed! Talk about a potential can of worms!
Never mix portions of one system disk with those of another unless you're a "trained professional" (we've all seen this on TV - "Don't try this at home, this man is a trained professional!"). The ONLY exception to this that I'm aware of as being "sanctioned by Apple" is the use of 4.0's BASIC.SYSTEM instead of the one that comes with 5.0. DTS has posted that exception several times here on ALPE...
Tim S.
Subj: could 89-08-25 12:51:03 EST
From: AFA Parik
Could Apple fix the bugs in Tool023 and upload a copy please. Yeah, right, in my dreams, right? ;)
Subj: Parik, In Your Next Dream... 89-08-25 19:23:32 EST
From: Coach101
Take 25 pounds off me...
Give me the winning Lotto numbers....
That should be enough... Thanks.... :)
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-08-25 21:52:57 EST
From: A GibberFC
For the 25 pounds off of you coach.... give me a knife....
and for the lotto numbers... I will get you those after The drawing ;)
I would like to see a new tool # uploaded too
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-08-26 14:55:33 EST
From: Mark TMM
The only System 5 specific program I have is Finder 1.3 and the Ctrl. Panel. Neither looks like they use the standard file toolset so... I'd rather give up some possible 5.0 compatability (hopefully only a short time), for the knowledge that my revision of a document has really been saved.
Mark
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-09-07 23:52:45 EST
From: BCS Al
Has Apple verified a TOOL023 bug? It might not be the tools fault, but the applications fault, especially those written before 5.0. AWGS doesn't see the ProDOS partion on a CD-ROM--is that a bug in the CD-ROM driver? Probably not!
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-09-10 11:16:21 EST
From: GS Express
I get the impression that Apple isn't overly concerned with what I would consider a rather major bug. This bug isn't hard to duplicate. Boot to the Finder or other program selector of your choice. From there, launch *ANY* P8 program. Quit that P8 program back to Finder. Launch *ANY* GS/OS or P16 program. Try to use Save as to a file name that already exists. There's no disk access, and you don't even get the "File exists" box. All that happens is that the save button turns black for a brief moment. I *REALLY* wish someone would address and correct this bug...it's not fatal or destructive, but is *QUITE* irritating!
P.S. System 5.0.1 does NOT correct this bug either!
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-09-10 22:55:50 EST
From: HyperRam
5.0.1??
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-09-11 22:33:57 EST
From: JoshThomps
I heard of it on a few BBSs, but where can I get it, if it exists??!?1
Subj: Re: SAVE AS...and system 5.0 89-09-18 23:34:01 EST
From: Mark TMM
I consider it a Tood032 bug because I first noticed it in ICONED, not AWGS. Also since changing the tool fixed it I, as I've said will work it this way.
Mark
Subj: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-22 20:00:04 EST
From: StephenDJ1 Msgs: 27 (89-10-07)
A couple of things: first, try holding down CTRL, Shift, Option, and Open-Apple (yes, all 4 keys) when you select "About the Finder ..."
Second, enter the Control Panel DA, click on RAM, and then click on the Help box -- the last sentence reads, and I quote "If resize after next reset is enabled, the RAM Disk will be resized the next time you boot." Ok, I give up. Where is the option 'Resize after next reset' ??? I would love to be able to change the size of the ram disk without powering down (or resetting out of the middle of self-test), and I'm sure there are a lot of other people that feel the same way.
Finally, being the curious person I am, I had to find out how Prodos was remembering which characters in a filename were lower case. Try this -- using the finder, rename any file to a name with both upper and lower case letters. Now, enter Basic, and do a CAT. Notice that the entire name is upper case. Rename the file to some other name (naturally, you can only give it a name all in upper case). Return to the finder, and VOILA -- the characters are both upper and lower case, in the same 'position' they were before (If you gave it a name of TestName to start with, then renamed it in basic.system to OTHERONE, back in the finder the name appears as OtheRone). A closer inspection with a block editor shows that the two bytes of a file-entry that used to define Current-Version and Minimun-Version are now used as a 15-bit mask of which characters are upper and lower case. GREAT -- Apple is sure to have opened a big incompatibility can-of-worms with this one!
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-22 20:52:00 EST
From: Matt DTS
What, you think we're a bunch of sausage brains or something? Lighten up. :)
The lowercase bits are documented in GS/OS technical note #8, released over a month ago, including a description of how the ProDOS FST does this.
The version bytes were only used by P8 when opening a subdirectory; they were never checked at other times. ProDOS 8 1.8 doesn't even check them there. We've found no compatibility problems.
--Matt
Subj: "resize after reset"; Pro.FST l-case 89-08-22 22:35:41 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Stephen, "Resize RAM Disk after next Reset" is a feature available only in ROM 3. With ROM 1, you can resize your RAM Disk by starting a self-test (Apple-Option-Ctrl-Reset, releasing Apple and Option after you see the self-test begin), then hitting Apple-Ctrl-Reset to reboot (releasing Apple after you see the reboot begin).
(This is faster than turning on the ROM 3 "resize after next reset" option anyway! You have to turn that option on every time you want to use it--it doesn't stay put.)
On lower-case bits on ProDOS disks: third-party applications have no business fiddling with those bits anyway, so there should not be compatibility problems beyond the one outlined in the Technical Note Matt mentioned. (Summary: *subdirectory* names containing lower-case letters are a problem with ProDOS 8 versions 1.7 and earlier, and with ProDOS 16.)
The decisions made in implementing the ProDOS FST were not made haphazardly, and they were not made poorly.
--Dave
Subj: RAM Resize 89-08-22 22:55:59 EST
From: AFA Parik
Also there are utilities to do this sort of thing, GS/OS's OsShutdown call supports resizing the RAM disk I believe. A good place to check for that is the AII Utilities forum.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-23 01:03:49 EST
From: AFC DaveS
What does CTRL-OPEN APPLE-SHIFT-RESET do on ROM1 machines? I've been using it for a while to purge out the RAMdisk...I assumed that it resized the disk too if I had changed the setting. The GS will beep twice if anything was in the RAMdisk.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-23 11:04:24 EST
From: StephenDJ1
I've never heard of a Ctrl-OpenApple-SHIFT-Reset -- is it different?
Also, I see everyone talking about ROM1 and ROM3 machines -- is there no such thing as ROM2, or did I miss something (I've got a ROM1). Is the ROM3 only available on the "enhanced" GS?
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-23 21:30:59 EST
From: Montagne
There is no difference between control - open Apple - reset and control - open Apple - shift - reset. In fact, the shift key is ignored.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-24 02:18:41 EST
From: JoshThomps
ROM03 is only available on the "new IIgs, and it's a 256k ROM set so you can't plug one into an old IIgs.
There is no ROM02...apparently people were confused by the fact that ROM v1.0 was ROM00, and ROM v2.0 was ROM01, so they just gave up and made ROM v3.0 as ROM03.
Subj: Apple-Shift-Control-Reset 89-08-27 23:05:15 EST
From: Jump Long
That key combination was used by Bill Basham in some of his "Diversi" utilities to force a cold boot.
Subj: Re: Boot Volume Access 89-08-28 01:13:23 EST
From: Twolfe1
I just tried to change the order of the files in one of the directories on my boot volume and discovered that ORCA/APW SWITCH and COMPRESS would not work so I tried Prosel sort directory and that didn't work either. I have used all of these functions successfuly under GS/OS 2.0 so I know they work. I started fooling around on my other volumes and all three worked fine.
I am using GS/OS 3.0, Orca 1.1b (I think), and ProSel 16 v6.9.
Does anyone have any Idea what is happening here?
Twolfe1
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-28 01:32:58 EST
From: Mark TMM
Twolfe1, what directory are you trying to rearrange? If it a folder such as CDEVS, some or all of the files may be resource files which many older programs can't handle.
If there are just a few or small files and you accept the risk, you can copy them to a ramdisk, delete the files from their current directory, and then copy them back one by one.
Mark
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-28 14:02:08 EST
From: Twolfe1
Mark, I wish it were that simple. I was trying to reorder my Orca/C libraries. I did finally have to delete all of the files and recopy them manually. It is still odd that none of these directory level utilities will work on the boot volume. Also I didn't mention this before, the error was a 'no access error' I checked and all directories and files in the path have all access atributes enabled.
Twolfe
Subj: Latest ProSel-16 Works 89-08-28 20:26:02 EST
From: Coach101
APW and ORCA will fail. From what I can tell if you try to open a directory file with WRITE access, GS/OS 3.0 will deny the open with an access denied type of error.
I did find that my copy of ProSel-16 (version 7.1 I think which also handles extended {resource} files properly) will successfully sort a directory for me. When play with the base directory of my hard disk I have had a failure where in the first 256 bytes of the disk are zeroed and the second 256 byte blocks are not touched. This has happened at least once on two different systems (InnerDrive-20 and Apple SCSI with HD20SC). I am not sure exactly who does it but be careful. If it happens it is not too dificult to repair; the boot block from any disk can be copied to the hard-disk and put you back in operation.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-28 23:46:32 EST
From: BCS Al
I've tested the IIgs with a network, CD-ROM drive, laser printers, etc. and everything works as advertised. Lucky, I guess.
Matt or Dave: I love Phil and Dave's Excellent CD! The Apple II stuff was great. And it's so fast using the IIgs. The development team did a bang-up job with the SCSI Manager and CD-ROM driver, from what I can see. Again, no problems, except some applications couldn't see the ProDOS partition of the CD-ROM drive for some reason. But, that's not your fault, obviously.
When's the next one?
Subj: Apple-Ctrl-Shift-Reset: Diversi! 89-08-29 23:25:57 EST
From: Dave Lyons
To elaborate on what Jump Long said, some Diversified Software Research products (like DiversiKey and DiversiCache) check for the Shift key being down during Apple-Ctrl-Reset, and they do a colder-than-usual reset if it's down.
This is a DiversiXXX function, *not* a ROM function--but it's easy to be misled (at least one magazine has published the Shift trick as a GS feature).
(At least, it's not a ROM 00 or ROM 01 feature. I'll have to check ROM 03--my mind is going fuzzy.)
--Dave
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-08-31 21:38:27 EST
From: HyperRam
I noticed the menu bar turns rainbow and back on VERY LOW memory when running programs. (i.e. 17k avail.) I ALSO noticed that 5.0 on a 512k machine works better then a 1.25MB machine with a 768k RAM Disk!!! :)
Ram
Subj: Sorting directories... 89-09-04 22:43:16 EST
From: Jump Long
Twolfe1: GS/OS won't let you directly maniputate a disk volume with Write_Block calls if a file on that volume is open. With System Software 5.0, you will always have at least one file open on the boot volume. If you want to sort a directory on the volume you normally boot from, then you'll need to boot from another volume before you use your directory sorting utility.
One way to sort a directory on the boot volume without rebooting with another volume is to:
1) create a new directory inside the directory you want to sort.
2) move all files in the old directory (except the new directory) into the new directory.
3) move the files back into the old directory in the order you want them.
4) delete the new directory.
-JML
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-09-05 05:51:17 EST
From: AFL Dyfet
What Jim (Jump Long) is suggesting is actually not as bad as it may sound. With the enhanced rename call under GS/OS it's quite easy to change the file's path and re-order into a temp directory without much overhead or having to physicially move (copy) the files.
Dyfet
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-09-07 16:37:09 EST
From: HyperRam
How come when loading a program-and it gives you that Please Wait... black screen or Loading... Etc.. the letters are screwed up with 5.0? I'm dying to know! :)
Ram
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-09-07 17:46:06 EST
From: HyperRam
Where is everybody-everyday I have problems with 5.0!! :)
Ram
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-09-09 21:46:38 EST
From: Montagne
Remember the story about the little boy who cried WOLF?
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-09-10 22:54:56 EST
From: HyperRam
Yeah-but most of the time his calls were true...
Subj: Wolf boy 89-09-16 01:41:00 EST
From: PElseth
Sorry to correct your fairy-tale recollection, ram, but if you'll think way back, the only time the little boy was telling the truth was the last time - the time no one believed him anymore. The result wasn't pretty...
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-09-17 10:04:40 EST
From: HyperRam
Well I WASN'T LYING!!! YOU accuse ME of lying!?! Would I DO SUCH A THING??? ;)))
I'm gonna host a critic show...
Ram
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Oddities 89-10-06 03:59:38 EST
From: RAGEditor
I'd like to ask a quick question here. What is GS/OS 3.0? (System Disk 6.0?)
I would like to add that I have a IIgs with ROM 01 (that's what shows up on the screen when you boot the computer) and have backed out of System Disk 5.0 because of too many problems with it. (I opened a folder about this.) I've been thinking that maybe I got a bad copy of System Disk 5.0, because I certainly had some strange things happen with it. Perhaps you can shed some light on my situation after you read the folder. Thanking you in advance.
Subj: Version Numbers.... 89-10-06 20:13:29 EST
From: Coach101
The collection of software on the system disk (that includes GS/OS, tools, utilities, Finder, etc.) carry a version number for the whole package. The current package is "System Software 5.0".
The version of GS/OS that is included in the "System Software 5.0" release is GS/OS 3.0.
I saw you earlier post on backing out of 5.0 and think you may be making a mistake if you are waiting for Apple to fix your problems. "System Software 5.0" has it problems as does all new software, but a lot of the problems that are reported are really a problem with a particular program that has a bug which only shows up under "System Software 5.0". So, the next release of the system software (rumored to be 5.0.2, and also rumored to be released real soon now) will correct some Apple bugs, but you may find that none of your difficulties are fixed.
Subj: System Disk v5.02 89-10-07 18:36:00 EST
From: AFA Parik
Do note that System Disk v5.02 is not a rumor, it has been released, and is currently in duplication. The only thing is Apple updates BOTH disks :( instead of sending out a disk with just the fixes, so it looks like you'd have to redownload the entire thing from the software library. OR you can get a free update from your dealer when he or she gets it in (should be in a couple of weeks at most).
Also you do NOT need the System Tools v5.02 if you do * NOT * run AppleShare. The only thing on system tools 5.02 is a fix to the appleshare START file.
Subj: GS/OS OPEN FILE 89-08-23 00:01:33 EST
From: BRENTON Msgs: 5 (89-08-29)
Everytime while under the finder I attempt to remove a file from
the desktop by dragging it into the trash. Using empty trash or
closing the disk results in an open file error. I would like to
delete a file on the disk. Is there any way to discover what file is open?
IIgs, 1 meg ram, System 5.0 software, Rom 1
Confused
Subj: Re: GS/OS OPEN FILE 89-08-23 01:52:15 EST
From: BurgerBill
Which file are you trying to delete? Files such as Start (The finder) and RESOURCE.MANAGER are constantly being accessed by GS/OS and the resource manager. Because of this, the system won't let you delete them because everything will explode.
If you REALLY want to delete that file. Boot up off another disk, NOT the disk that has the files, and delete away.
Subj: Re: GS/OS OPEN FILE 89-08-23 21:29:36 EST
From: Montagne
You dont want to remove the resource manager!
Subj: Re: GS/OS OPEN FILE 89-08-24 02:28:58 EST
From: BRENTON
Thanks for the comments.
The file I was trying to remove was the letter file in the
tutorial area.
:)
Subj: problem deleting a file 89-08-29 23:21:26 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Brenton, please give step-by-step instructions for getting the "open file" message, including exactly what the message says. So far I don't understand what's going on.
--Dave
Subj: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-08-24 11:02:38 EST
From: StephenDJ1 Msgs: 21 (89-09-19)
I just got and installed GS/OS 5.0 a couple days ago onto a harddisk at work. We do a lot of 8-bit development there, but use APW because it has better features than old stuff like LISA, or SPARC. A simple 'MAKEBIN' operation converts our work to 8-bit mode.
No sooner had I installed the new OS, and I was running into problems. Further investigation showed that the problem was interrupt related. Our software, able to run on either a IIe or a IIGS (in IIe 'mode') attempts to load some data into the AUX. language card area. Up to this point, we just switched on the AUX language card, for both reads and writes, and copied the data from lower MAIN memory up into the card, then switched it off until it was needed. However, 5.0 seems to leave an interrupt going when you enter Prodos 8 1.8. At 'unpredictable' intervals during the process of loading the AUX LC, the system would 'crash' in unusual ways. Only after adding a SEI instruction during the process did the problem disappear.
Unfortunately, I am not a big reader of Tech-notes and the like, so perhaps this problem was our own fault of not following the rules. On the other hand, maybe this is in fact a bug in 5.0, that it leaves an interrupt going when you enter Prodos 8, that 4.0 shut off. If it is a bug, than any other 8-bit software that attempts to load the AUX LC 'directly' may crash as well.
Someone, please, enlighten me.
Subj: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 2 89-08-24 18:58:46 EST
From: StephenDJ1
I should add that as a result of this interrupt problem, I have found that CopyIIPlus 7.1 does not work properly if it is launched from 5.0. Specifically, it can NOT copy 5.25 disks. Yes, I know that CopyIIPlus is up to about 8.4 or so, but this is the only version that can create/extract disk IMAGE type files.
Also, if I enter Basic.System v1.2 (I know about 1.3s problems), and put in a floppy version of CopyIIPlus 7.1, and type PR#6, it still does not copy 5.25 disks. The fact that a PR#6 does NOT 'clear' the interrupt problem makes me think that it is DEFINITELY a bug.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-08-25 07:06:42 EST
From: AFL Dyfet
I believe what you are experiancing is the heart beat interrupt. Since 4.0, GS/OS has made use of heart beat interrupt to control some internal activity. I had thought 4.0 also left heart beat on during the switch-over to ProDOS 8, but it may have cleared it's handler from the list first (and as a result, may have temporarily shutdown the int. source when the heart beat queue was emptied).
Dyfet
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-08-25 21:57:11 EST
From: Montagne
Yes GS/OS uses the hearbeat interrupt manager but removes it's handler when quiting to P8. The interrupt source is not turned off however. The reason is that there is no way to determine if other handlers are in the heartbeat queue or if some software requires the tick counter be running. When the heartbeat interrupt queue is empty, no tasks are called. It does however sound like a task may not have been deleted from the heartbeat interrupt queue. Please post what driver's and desk accessories you have installed.
Ray (GS/OS Team)
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-08-26 14:34:26 EST
From: StephenDJ1
Ray,
I have NO extra desk accessories. The only extra drivers are the SCSI drivers from the /SYSTEM.TOOLS disk (although now I don't think I need them -- I have a CMS drive, and CMS card, and it appeared to be recognized when /SYSTEM.DISK was booted for the first time). That's it. Nothing else besides what /SYSTEM.DISK came with.
Note that it is basically the SAME setup (drivers, DAs, or rather, lack of DAs) that I had with 4.0, and I had NO trouble at all. This is definitely UNIQUE to 5.0.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-08-29 23:09:20 EST
From: Dave Lyons
A couple of tidbits, for what they're worth:
--The documentation says that 5.0 turns off the VBL interrupts
when the last task is removed from the heartbeat queue,
provided that several conditions are met (it tries hard not
to turn off the VBL interrupts when they are still being
used by the mouse or 3rd-party software).
--Under 4.0, the VBL interrupts are typically not turned on,
since the system didn't use any HeartBeat tasks. (If you
had DAs that used HB tasks, they would be turned on.)
--PR#6 is not a recommended way of booting if you've already
booted up System Software (any version). Apple-Ctrl-Reset
is recommended. (With PR#6, interrupts will still be turned
on, unless the software you're booting turns them off.)
--If you're curious about whether there are tasks in the HB
queue, you might want to try out Nifty List (CDA, by me,
available in the ADV libraries, Shareware). Try the ~h
command.
--Dave
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-08-30 22:59:28 EST
From: Montagne
Dave,
Actually, PR#n should never be used once GS/OS has been up and running. Interrupts are not the only issue (although they are important). Managed memory also comes into play. Duplicate allocations may occur because of improper shutdown (or no shutdown at all). The number of tasks required to clean up the system for reboot vary based on the individual system configuration. The programming task is not reasonable at all. After running GS/OS, if a reboot is neccessary, either jump through the monitor rom cold start entry point (warm start is not safe either) or use control - open Apple - Reset.
Ray
Subj: Reboot with Apple-Ctrl-Reset 89-08-30 23:31:49 EST
From: Dave Lyons
Thanks, Ray--I didn't mean to imply that interrupts were the _only_ problem with rebooting using PR#n. (Stephen's original problem seemed to be interrupt related, which is why I concentrated on that.)
Summary: Rebooting with PR#n once you've been in GS-specific software isn't recommended and will cause you problems for several reasons.
--Dave
Subj: It's NOT just rebooting ... 89-08-31 10:42:07 EST
From: StephenDJ1
Ok, I'll use Ctrl-OA-Reset to boot a floppy. BUT, how do I launch CopyIIPlus 7.1???? With the interrupts still on, it can NOT read a 5.25 disk (in the disk copy function).
And my own development software, designed to run under Prodos 8, also suffers from the continued interrupts. I still say the interrupts being left on is a bug.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-09-01 19:39:02 EST
From: Montagne
Interrupts being left on is definitely not a bug. There are however, many routines which cannot tolerate an interrupt such as the synchronous code written to support the AppleDisk5.25, AppleDisk3.5 and UniDisk3.5. During execution of synchronous code within these drivers, interrupts are temporarily disabled and then re-enabled after completion of the synchronous routine. If the application is using the operating system to access the disk (as it should), then it should experience no problems as a result of interrupts running in the system.
Ray (GS/OS Team)
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-09-01 21:05:45 EST
From: M Woolf
This may be unrelated, but I'll add my pennies worth. My system now fails the interrupt test on the dealers diagnostic tests. Just thought I'd let ya know.
Michael
Subj: "Proper" use of ints under P8 89-09-05 00:22:38 EST
From: PElseth
If you are writing an application that uses the alt. language card under ProDOS 8, the _first_ thing you must do is to disable interrupts, then copy the interrupt vector from the main lc to the aux lc, then re-enable interrupts and continue one. Also, remember to use the alt. stack $100 and $101 to keep track of the main and aux stack ptrs (S register). All applications should do this, even if they don't use interrupts - somebody else might (in this case, maybe the O/S). Defensive coding should be a basic way of life.
Subj: life with interrupts 89-09-05 20:51:02 EST
From: Dave Lyons
The system has the right to leave interrupts on if it wants to.
It's the application's responsibility to turn them off at critical times. Complain *loudly* to the Copy II Plus folks.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-09-08 18:50:19 EST
From: StephenDJ1
I should note here that my CopyIIPlus problems are with version 7.1, not 8.x which works fine. I use 7.1 to create/extract disk image files, not supported in 8.x (about which I will complain LOUDLY).
Subj: cII+ v7.x 89-09-09 13:20:14 EST
From: AFA Parik
I know Copy II+ v7.3 had a bug in it, something about trashing your hard drive! ack! I wouldn't recommend using anything below v8.1. Why not use ShrinkIt to create a disk image?
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-09-12 20:52:12 EST
From: AFC JoyceM
Okay you guys...I am not a programmer and don't know about these 'heartbeat' interrupts. But recently I have been getting this message when downloading off of AppleLinke: "65536 unclaimed interrupts"! I hit the return key (as requested), see the ALink download menu and then the computer re-boots...or so it thinks. It dies and I have to do a warm boot.
Have a IIGS (naturally), 1.25 meg (Apple), Using 5.0, ProSel-16 v.7.1, 2 small CDA's, Epic Classic 2400 internal modem. BTW, also have 4.0 on system, but use System.Switch to launch it.
What is this 65536 message trying to tell me???? What can I do about it? I get rather annoyed when I have to re-run ALink to re-download the file, which BTW, after re-boot the downloading is smooth. Also use AW2.1 with Ultra.Macros...is that the problem too?
Thanks,
Joyce
Subj: Welcome Aboard, Joyce..... 89-09-13 20:21:15 EST
From: Coach101
Its great to have company here in 65536 unclaimed interrupt land. Both Apple and Quantum are aware of the problem, and there is no solution from anyone yet. Two known workarounds are 1) use 4.0 for your downloads, or 2) use 5.0 but launch the 8 bit version of Applelink (then remember the Save As problem under 5.0).
There are more folders further down the line here in Operating Systems on the problem and there is even one in ATB now. My general suggestion is to let Apple & Quantum know you have the problem (just so they have an idea as to how pervasive the problem is).
My suspicion is that your modem card uses a 6551 chip to do its UART function. That chip is at least one common denominator in the various trouble reports that I have seen.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-09-13 22:59:05 EST
From: AFC JoyceM
Coach, thank you for the tips and information. I will launch 4.0..forgot this evening and got dumped when downloading a file/program. Oh well.
The rest of your message was incomplete about the chip on the Epic Classic internal 2400 modem...is there anything I can do about that....of just let Apple/Quantum know the problem. I presume all of this is 5.0's fault/problem?
Thank you again,
Joyce
Subj: Chips & Internal Modems..... 89-09-14 20:29:43 EST
From: Coach101
Most internal modems use a 6551 chip to do the serial to parallel conversion to and from the machines 8 bit bus and the phone lines "single bit" width. This is a very common chip on internal modems since the Apple Super Serial Card uses the 6551 chip and an internal modem cannot achieve Super Serial Card compatibility without using the 6551 chip.
There appears to be a pattern from those reporting the problem and those with internal modems that do not see the problem, that indicates that only internal modems that use the 6551 chip are susceptible to the problem. If your modem uses the 6551 chip there is nothing much you can do about it.
It is unclear where the bug lies. It could be an Apple bug in 5.0's interrupt handling or it could be a bug in Quantum's AppleLink Personal Edition software that does not handle interrupts correctly. If it is an error in Quantum's domain, then the situation would be that the error went undetected by system software 4.0 but is detected by system software 5.0.
Hope all of that is clearer now.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-09-15 21:49:37 EST
From: AFC JoyceM
Thanks, Coach. I solved the problem with interrupts with 5.0, buy re-installing 4.0 and getting rid of 5.0 completely. I am guessing, from my little knowledge of programming, etc., that the problem lies with the internal modem's chip and 5.0. I don't have the problem with 4.0...and since 5.0 has more interrupts...well, I can just presume that the problem is with 5.0, as this is not the only problem I run into with 5.0.
Just my humble thought.
Thanks...
Joyce
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 Interrupt Problems 89-09-19 22:16:38 EST
From: Montagne
Coach...
You're right on the money. Previous system software did indeed hide problems with interrupt handlers which were not an integral component of the system software. As complexity of the internal implementation of the operating system increases, the ability to tolerate incorrect software behavior decreases and the reliance on proper software implementations increases. It's not always convenient but often true.
Subj: GS/OS 5.0 & Practive Folder 89-08-25 18:18:50 EST
From: GSJoe1 Msgs: 2 (89-08-25)
I recently got a copy of GS/OS from my local Apple Dealer. As most have already noticed, I'm sure, there's very little room to add desk accessories to the disk.
Looking through the catalog of the System Disk, I noticed that there was a Tutorial sub-directory. Since I didn't buy the manuals, I'm not exactly sure what there use is, but based on the title, I doubt they provide much utility for the user familiar the the GS and computers in general.
My question is: Is there any reason not to move the entire sub-directory to the Tools Disk, or just delete it altogether ??
It looks that somewhere on the order of 25 to 30 blocks might be freed up, enough for a couple of extra desk accessories anyway.
Comments and suggestions would be appreciated.
Subj: Re: GS/OS 5.0 & Practive Folder 89-08-25 20:35:20 EST
From: JoshThomps
You can just delete the TUTORIALS folder. It's nothing more than some subdirectories and files for people to practice using the Finder with. They serve no other pratical purpose.
Subj: Using System 5.0 Installer 89-08-25 21:54:28 EST
From: PaulR47 Msgs: 7 (89-09-04)
I confess! I'm a novice! Can someone explain how to use the Installer to upgrade programs using System 4.0? I've tried to install the System 5.0 "SYSTEM" folder keep getting a "disk full" message. Are there certain select files that I should be selecting to install? Is the installer really only for use with a hard disk?(I have a 3.5" & 5.25" drive) Help with this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Subj: Re: Using System 5.0 Installer 89-08-26 10:37:14 EST
From: AFL Dyfet
Yes, basically, the Installer is primarily for harddisks. You can use the Installer to install a printer driver onto your 3.5 boot disk, but that would be about it. There is just too little room on the 3.5 to install EVERYTHING.
NOTE: The Installer should ONLY be ran after booting System Disk 5.0! Do not run the new installer from 4.0.
Dyfet
Subj: Re: Using System 5.0 Installer 89-08-26 12:21:02 EST
From: SamT2
You will find that System Disk 5.0/GSOS 3.0 is a lot larger than previous versions of GSOS. On a relatively full disk, there will not be room to upgrade. Do NOT attempt to hand install GSOS 3.0, that will almost always fail. The Installer is "required" to install or upgrade GSOS 3.0.
If you are a 3.5 user ( don't have a hard drive) then your best bet is to make a System Disk for your configuration and use it. If you have only one drive, then get out your credit cards or check book and go buy another drive. The boot disk needs to be online too much of the time to swap disks in a single drive. I would strongly urge you to consider a hard drive rather than getting a second AppleDisk 3.5. The $300 or so for a 3.5 drive will go a long way towards a hard drive purchase.
Sam
Subj: Re: Using System 5.0 Installer 89-08-28 20:34:01 EST
From: Scapino
Your right, hard drives do make life a lot easyer;easier?
But it cant spell for you, drats!
Kurt
Subj: Re: Using System 5.0 Installer 89-08-31 02:04:04 EST
From: AndyBoy1
Yes, you SHOULD use the installer, even onto 3.5 " disks. There are two questions here: (1) How to install (2) What to install
Apple recommends one and one way only of installing GS/OS and system 5.0 onto ANY boot disk: The system disk 5.0 installer. Please do not install systems by hand. We have no end of trouble helping people who've tried to do this.
Now, what to install. As has been mentioned, 5.0 is indeed bigger. You must be very careful what to install. And you just won't be able to get all of the features onto a single disk. But basically you can install the minimal system, -not- the extra fonts, and just enough drivers, and it should fit just fine on a floppy.
--Andy
Subj: Re: Using System 5.0 Installer 89-08-31 06:26:47 EST
From: SkipS
Is there any way to run the installer from a hard disk without
renaming the hard disk to /system.disk?
Thanks for any help...
-Skip
Subj: Re: Using System 5.0 Installer 89-09-04 22:28:27 EST
From: Jump Long
Skip,
The Installer will run from any disk volume, but it expects its scripts to be in a folder named "Scripts" at the same directory level as the Installer application. See Apple IIGS Technical Note #64 for details.
However, the scripts supplied with the 5.0 disks are written to use the volumes "System.Disk" and "System.Tools" as the source volumes for the files they use. If you wanted to rewrite the scripts to use your hard disk volume as the source volume for the files, you could (but it would be a lot of work).
-JML
Subj: GSOS 5.0, ACER, and problems 89-08-30 21:19:10 EST
From: LVirden Msgs: 4 (89-09-28)
I was trying ACER (a sound utility I got from the music and sound forum here) out this past weekend and had a VERY strange occurance. I have talked about it elsewhere, but Floyd thought that some aspects could be asked about here. Using the File menu box, I selected open. I got a 'standard' file selection dialog box, where a volume is shown at the top, and a set of directories are shown within a scrolling selection box beneath. There were also 4 buttons. I went thru the 3 disks I had online and could find nothing that ACER identifed as a sound file. So I removed one of the volumes and again cycled thru the disks. When the dialog returned to the drive where the new disk was place, the old disk's volume name and directories were displayed. Note that I KNOW that the new disk was not named the same, and that it did not contain the same directories.
Well, I tried several things, had no luck, so I quit ACER and returned to the Finder. It TOO indicated that I had the old disk in the drive. I told Finder to restart, and when it did, it came back up and AGAIN told me that I had the old disk in the drive. When I tried to access the old disk, I was told that it was damaged. I then got into ProSel's Mr.Fixit, which told me that there were a number of problem files - all with the name of the directories on the old disk.
It APPEARS that for some reason, ACER or GS/OS 5.0 wrote the wrong directory out to the disk. Now, I THINK that I have lost the data on that disk. Can anyone a) think of why this might happen and b) think of solutions? So far, someone suggested that I track down bag of tricks ii and see if it can help any.
Subj: Re: GSOS 5.0, ACER, and problems 89-08-30 22:47:16 EST
From: Montagne
LVirden,
Can you give a little more information about your system configuration?
Slot setup...
Peripherals on the disk port.....
Drivers installed.....
File System Translators (FSTs) installed.....
Thank, Ray
Subj: Re: GSOS 5.0, ACER, and problems 89-09-02 07:56:51 EST
From: LVirden
Let me FIRST give you some other info. Then if you wish, I can run down the other info.
Amazingly enough, night before last another person ran into the same problem (or at least quite similar) as I and posted a note to usenet about it!
In his circumstance, he was experimenting with a 3.5" disk formatter. He was trying various interleafing formats and testing to see which was faster. He discovered that if he booted into the finder, put a 2:1 disk in, cataloged it , then ejected that disk and put in a 4:1 disk, the finder was not able to determine (??) that a new disk was inserted. I dont know for sure in his case, but I think that he TOO was using a Unidisk 3.5 for this disk swapping circumstance.
In my case, I have one of each type of 3.5 - an Apple 3.5 and an Apple Unidisk. My disks are formatted in either 2:1 or 4:1 - depending on where I happened to put in the blank disk when I was using it. I have a MDIdeas card in slot 4 and an Apple 5.25" disk controller in 6. Except for 6, all my slot assignments ar ethe default. I boot from Smartport. My system disk is the default disk, with any Appleshare file removed by the installer (i dont know if any are actually THERE on that default disk) and with the Unidisk driver and 5.25" driver there. I have slot 6 turned to port - I dont use those 5.25" much. I have no hard disk - so the only FSTs are the default ones. Plugged into my ports is an ImageWriter II (into printer port), a 2400 baud modem into the modem port, a GS RGB monitor into the video, 2 radio shack speakers into the stereo card, and a joystick into the joystick port. No appletalk in use. Power cord plugged in <grin>. GS std keyboard and mouse plugged into the ADB. One DA - the ShowText NDA written by Guy Rice. I think that is about all I can tell you about my system.
Subj: Re: GSOS 5.0, ACER, and problems 89-09-28 18:13:27 EST
From: The Mouse2
Bag of Tricks II has a program called FixCat, which very comprehensively will try to correct any and all directory problems. I had a few problems (guess what happened - a disk of mine became 'corrupted'. I was wondering why all the prodos 8 programs (there were only p8 programs on it) were behaving strange, crashing where they never did before and the like. I ran fixcat on it and every file that i was haveing problems with said that "warning: some of the blocks in this file overlap blocks allocated to other files. Ok to fix?" I had it fix everything possible (cause I couldn't even delete the bad files off the disk without getting errors , before1!!!!), then tried the programs, which still crashed, but then I could delete them and put new ones in their place. Everything's fine thanx to FixCat!!! It's pretty cool. I'd suggest making a copy of your disk and running fixcat on it, to see if it will do anything. Who knows? it might work, might not!!!
